V 12 N. 30 Boston Is Coming in Five Days (Monday April 18) and Ned Price Will Be There

 After a three year hiatus  Boston will be run again on Patriots' Day April 18, 2022.

Our colleague Ned Price (Univ. of Chicago 1960 something) lives a few streets from the 7.9 mile mark.  He likes to take pictures there and forwards them to us to put on the blog the same day.  He'll be doing it again this year.  If you wish to see some of Ned's work in previous years  here is a link to the last four or five races.  There is also a posting in there of pictures he took in 1962 at the UC track when the United States competed in a dual meet with the Polish national team.  Just keep scrolling, you'll be impressed.  Lots of good stuff including Ted Haydon's list of excuses by runners when things go wrong in a race.  

Here is the link:     Ned Price Archives

Now to keep your minds sharp,  here is a query and discussion that Ned and I had last week precipitated by way of the internet.  Warning this is not for the minds of dilettantes and delvers into the Riemann Hypothesis.  

Riemann Hypothesis?  Fermat's Last Dual Meet.   You are putting pressure on an old man. I will probably forget to take off the lens cap.   Ned

Ned Price	Sun, Apr 10, 11:17 AM (2 days ago)
to me

 I was thinking about math weirdness and running.

1. There is a situation where 5-3-1 scoring in a dual track meet produces a different winner than 3-2-1 scoring.

2. Out East we used to have  three team meets called "double dual"  x-country meets where you crossed out the runners from the third team and separately scored a-b, b-c and a-c.

It can lead paradoxically to a>b, ,b>c, and c>a.     ">"  means "is greater than" (ed.)

Ned,

How can I respond to a question like this from a U. of Chicago grad?  I'm sure there is some very obscure mathematical premise hidden in 

here somewhere.  We used to have those double dual meets in track and cross country, even three teams scoring as three duals.  Always gave everyone a chance to come home with a win teamwise or individually.

This may have been the precursor of giving every kid a trophy on the last place team.

George

George:

You are an eclectic fellow     It took  me a while to come up with an example.   If there are 10 events in  a dual meet and a  team  has 2 firsts 9 seconds and 7 thirds    A loses the meet 44-46   scoring  5-3-1    but wins 31-29 scoring 3-2-1.

Regarding the 3 duals , if (in Cross Country)  Oklahoma beat Oklahoma Baptist 27-28 and Oklahoma Baptist beat  Oklahoma State 27-28 and Oklahoma State beat Oklahoma 27-28 wouldn't  you wonder too?

Don't blame the University of Chicago for my mutterings.

Ned

Ned,

How would you score the relays in those dual meets?    5-0    or 3-0 to the winner?  Who ever said the relay was not important?

Perhaps you have seen Jim Fixx's less well known book  "Games for the Superintelligent"?  Here is an easy one from that book.

Ch II  No. 14.   Ups and Downs     A snail is at the bottom of a well 30 feet deep.  It can crawl upward three feet in one day, but at

night it slips back two feet.  How long does it take for the snail to crawl out of the well?

Answ.   Twenty-eight days.  On the twenty eighth day it reaches the top of the well and doesn't slip backwards. We are of course assuming that the snail has enough energy stored in it's body to keep up this struggle for 28 days, or perhaps it was able to lick off the slime on the walls of the well.  Of course we must also assume it has a tongue. I think I may have posted some of these on the blog a few years ago.  Don't ask me if there are three snails at the bottom of the well, whether each can be a winner.  

George

George:

Yes you have pointed out something I had not considered. You are sly like a fox.  Ned

If there were two relays, a win and a loss could nullify any change in team scores.    My colleague Roy Mason will enjoy this, and I shall put it on the blog.

I hope you are physically  as well as you are mentally and will be out along the street for the Boston marathon next week.  And of course we will expect a photographic report.   

Here is a link to a set of Fixx's questions in another posting in 2016 with additional discussion about the Rio 1500m and other commentary from the readers.  The answers to the questions are at the end of the post.

https://onceuponatimeinthevest.blogspot.com/2016/08/v-6-n-59-rio-2016-more-from-our-round.html

Take care,

George

Ned,

Nowdays in cross country with the chips in the shoes they calculate the 'running score' as the race progresses which adds to the fun of doing a post race analysis.

"At the 8.5km mark we were national champs, but alas by the end we were fifth." 

George

George:

I knew you were a nerd at heart.  With 10 events and 3 scoring places, there are 11x11x11=1331 separate possibilities . About 98% produce consistent winners or ties.    I didn't consider relays.

If all goes well I will try to be at the 7.9 mile mark Monday.  Ned

Finally Roy Mason wades in:  My first reaction was "interesting" and then moved on only to return.  Probably play with this when the day's chores are behind me. 

Not familiar with 3-2-1.  Have always thought the 5-3-2-1 scoring used in the meets with the Soviet Union, where there are only four competitors, was odd.  You get a point for finishing last?  How can you not finish last?  Yes, I know, Bob Soth, but still.    (For those of you who forgot, Bob Soth overheated in the US Russian dual in the 10,000 and DNF'd. in Philly 1959)  link:  Bob Soth

Be warned some of these images are graphic and disturbing.