Once Upon a Time in the Vest

Wednesday, November 5, 2014

Vol. 4 No. 80 Clearing My Desk

As most of you are aware,  one's email files can be as cluttered with neat things as well as junk that is  junk to some but treasure to others.  That well describes many to the notes from readers that I have been putting on the back burner for months, perhaps years.  So I'm going to unload on you die hard track and field readers.   Maybe you have more things to share as well.  Interesting stuff yet not so interesting that you or I have time to research and then write an article or put up links.  This is perhaps too long of an entry, but for die hard track nuts like yourselves it may contain some nuggets worth culling.  Please excuse me in advance for errors of thought, fact, and fantasy.  Some of this stuff may not even be track related, but that is the power of controlling one's website.  I've been through about half of my saved emails, so there may well be another posting like this if I don't receive too many negative comments.  Beware,  my feelings are not easily hurt.  Readers in the Ukraine and Sri Lanka, and Borneo may wonder why I'm even putting this on the blog.  Just keep wondering and please  indulge an old track guy.

  Also  Roy Mason, my co-writer had nothing to do with this, so don't bring the Furies down on him.
George Brose


Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter) to star as Sebastian Coe in film to go in production next year 2015

from Joe Swanson


This link will give you multiple other links to Bannister's 4 minute mile and articles from numerous news media and video.





Thoughts on changing coaching compensation rules from Steve Price.

 Maybe they should start paying coaches by the second(s) their runners bring their time(s) down during the four (4) years they are on the team. Say a kid comes in at 4:30 and leaves running 4:10. At a $1000.00/ second, that would come to a nifty 20 grand. Think that might change your recruiting philosophy a tad ?  Steve

Roy Mason chimed in.
THAT PAY THE COACH BY THE SECOND IDEA WOULD LEAD TO A RASH OF RECRUITING 7 MINUTE MILERS

 George's thoughts:
So   in the 6-7 minute range we pay fifty cents on each second improved

 5-6 minute range    $2.00 per second of improvement.

 4-5 minute range  $5.00 per second improvement.

 4:30-4:59  range   $7.50 per second improvement

 4:20-4:30 range    $20 per second improvement

 4:10-4:19  range   $50 per second improvement

 4:05-4:09 range   $100 per second improvement.

 4:00- 4:04 range  $500 per second improvement.

under 4:00  $1000 per second improvement.


From Bruce Kritzler

George,
TFN has a link today to "The Snakeman of La Perouse" about John Cann, Austrailian 1956 Olympian in decathlon.
You can find video on youtube - Snakeman of La Perouse.




From Jeff Allen:

Hello,

I just found your blog and noticed a few mentions of my father, Jim Allen. He was a top 400 hurdler in 1963. I would love to connect and discuss.

Best,

Jeff Allen
(We hope to have an article about Jim Allen in the near future.)


From Joe Swanson , a link to Guardian article on Franz Stampfl;



From Phil Scott

George: I enjoyed John Bork Tiger shoe history. Being a multi event athlete I had a bag full of shoes (sprint shoes,hj, sp&d, jav, training shoes) I won nationals twice. Never  received even a shoe lace , never expected anything. If I would have got $ for wearing a mfg. Shoes. I would have used money to buy more shoes:) I WORE PUMA, ADIDAS, TIGER & NIKE in one Decathlon. 

TO: Bruce K.
 Bruce,  I found this interview with Jack Bacheler.  Figured you would be very interested.


Did you run and train with those guys when you were in Gainesville?  

From Bruce Kritzler:

George,
About half of those guys were still in Gainesville, when I got there in 1977. Marty Liquori (not mentioned), Byron Dyce, Juris Luzins, are still there. Jerry Slaven (from Youngstown) now in Tampa, John Parker (splits time between Tallahassee, Boston, Gainesville). Barry Brown was the center of things 1977-90, till commiting suicide.


From Phil Scott: Pre full stride Munich looks like Oregon color scheme Adidas.


Sebastian Coe's pre-Olympic training in 1984 with Joe Newton in Illinois




Need to look up your results in road races past? From Dennis Kavanaugh

There is a website--athlinks.com--that lists races and runners, etc. You can just enter your name and the website will bring up whatever results they have for you. Depending on location, the results generally go back about 10 or so years. I believe the New York Marathon results are listed for each year. (Though, they are on the marathon website as well.) I think Bolder Boulder results are there for every year. As an example, results of my friend Bob Meyers are shown for Bolder Boulder beginning in 1982, when he was only 29.

Shot clip of 1950 AAU meet.



US v. Great Britain 1961


Texas Relays 1962 Camien defeating Burleson film quality poor.


England v. France 1961


From Phil Scott

56 first glass pole might have been considered cheating.  Then in 60  Armin Hary   Thief of Starts.  64,  the Press Sisters   68 - 88   East Germany  84 Ben Johnson, Flo JO

92 Jackie Joyner?  96 Jackie Joyner,  2000  Marion Jones.    I forgot all the weight men and ladies who would cover most of the other years in this century.
And it must be remembered that all kinds of commercial additives were being given to long distance runners in the 1890's and onward. A number of cyclists dropped dead during competition in those days.

Gamesmanship in the 1900 Olympics from This Day in Track and Field by Walt Murphy
It was a busy day at the 1900 Olympic in Paris, with gold medals determined in 10 events, some of which had short Olympic lives. Many religious athletes declined to compete in their respective finals, which were held on a Sunday! And there was no traditional track! Events were contested on a grass field, with running events conducted on a 500-meters loop,60m/Long Jump=Al Kraenzlein won his 2nd and 3rd gold medals(won the 110-hurdles the previous day), edging U.S. teammate Walter Tewksbury in the sprint as both were timed in 7.0. The long jump was filled with controversy. Marks in Saturday's qualifying round would count towards determining the eventual winner, and Myer Prinstein led the way with a jump of 23-1  1/2(7.175), with Kraenzlein 2nd at 22-9(6.93). Even though he was Jewish, and had competed on his own Sabbath, Prinstein was told by his college(Syracuse) that he couldn't compete on Sunday. He reportedly entered into an agreement with Kraenzlein that neither would compete on Sunday. But Kraenzlein did compete, and wound up as the Olympic champion after topping Prinstein's qualifying mark by one centimeter (7.185[23-2). Prinstein had to be restrained from going after Kraenzlein when the result was announced! He gained some consolation by winning the gold medal at the 1904 Olympics



From Ernie Cunliffe:

Just got my summer issue of the Olympian magazine with 2  T & F obits.

Phil Conley Javelin in 56 games.  Mr everything at Cal Tech.   I knew him quite well as he and his wife
Fran were around Stanford a lot when I was there.  Fran was the "female" Dr who was discriminated
against at Stanford Med School Faculty mainly because she was a woman.

Anyway:   Phil was 79 when he died on March 14th 2014.  My Olympic book has him as 10th at the
Olympics.  Got a PR in the O trials with a 2nd place throw of  244+ but threw 228+ in Olympics.

Emma Reed Wright who competed in the 48 games as Emma Reed.    Won O trials long (sorry it was broad jump then) jump with 18' + and was 3rd in high jump with 5' +.   Dropped way off at the Olympics with almost a 16' long jump for 12th.   Got 14th with a 4' 7" + in high jump.   Her PR in high jump would not have
placed for a medal, but her PR in LJ would have taken silver.

Emma died April 4th 2014 at the age of 88. 

Conley's PR in the O trials of 56 was the 244+ but his PR best was in the early 1960s when he threw
260+

Emma Reed won 48 O trials in LJ with 18'  4  5/8 "  .   The Olympic list of athletes credits her with
an 18' 4  1/4" which would not have been silver at Olympics but bronze.   I could not find when she
became Emma Reed Wright and am not sure if she was married as the Olympian magazine is vague
on her status and lists a sister and several nieces and nephews as survivors.


George Brose and Steve Price exchange



I was just reading up on Gen. Arthur St. Clair's defeat at the hands of the Shawnees, Delaware and a couple other tribes near Ft. Recovery, Ohio.  Biggest defeat ever at the hands of the Indians.   84% loss.   Of course Custer had to top him on percentage but not total casualties.  He still got a street named for him in Dayton.   Just got an email from John Mason,  former good miler  late 60's.



John Mason was one hell of a good miler. Maybe from Kansas/Nebraska area ? Thanks for the info on Ft. Recovery/St. Clair. I was a tad familiar with the battle but didn't realize to what extent the Feds took a major ass whipping. I will send this on. Steve


Note from Roy Mason after sending me his completed piece on Day One of 1964 Olympics
Finally got the son of a bitch done. 


From Rick Lower:

George-
Do you have any list of T&F historical sites? Whether its track spikes like Phil Scott or specific event focuses like the attached, or Bob Roncker's museum?
Thks!
http://parade.condenast.com/304684/parade/how-i-started-a-pole-vaulting-museum-on-facebook/


Another track statistics and news source. Americans, remember that the word 'athletics' means track field in most of the rest of the world.



Note to Orville Atkins after my trip to the Pre Classic last May.

Orville,  We're dinosaurs.   I have no way of equating to all those people running 4 hour marathons either.  Seems like a long time to do the same amount of work.  I ran 2 hr.. 51 at Boston in 1978 and was 1259th place.   You had to run sub 2 hr. 50 min to get in the race. I blew up that day.   Now they (organizers)  make a phenomenal amount of money allowing all the joggers to get in.  I was talking yesterday to a guy on the ferry back to Vancouver Island.  He had run some marathon in Newport , OR trying to qualify.  Needed a 3 hr. 40 to get in for his age group.  Most of the adults in my club here do not know Billy Mills or Bob Schul.  They don't know interval running, etc.      

This weekend I got to Eugene , OR for the first time and saw the Pre Classic.  What an event, and I had a press pass so could talk with athletes when I wasn't watching them run;   i think it could go on a bucket list of things to do.   Met Mo Farah at breakfast.  He drove a big black Cadillac Escalade with tinted windows.  Looked like a Secret Service Car.     Twenty six sub four minute miles in that meet.




Note from Steve Price



The truth about running came to us from Mike Solomon:


Willie Nelson in an early 1970's Road Race  (Austin, TX?)

Note to John Bork: PS. Modern military people can correct me if I'm way off on some of the things I said here.

If your Dad was a pipe fitter in the ship building industry (WWII era)  , he probably picked up a lot of asbestos in those confined areas. I'd say that was a very dangerous  environment to be in even if the bullets were not flying.
.  
The military was a strange way of life.  You could be running track for the army or marines and air force or getting into some nasty situations if you were on the  other end of the spectrum.  Something like only twenty percent (?) of the guys who were in Viet Nam were ever shot at.  A lot of them were in 
support jobs.  Now those jobs are all filled by highly paid 'contractors' or lowly paid food service people.  I don't think anybody pulls KP anymore in the military.  So a lot higher percentage of the guys and gals in the army now are more often in the shit so to speak than they were back when.  

I'd say I had it about as cushy as it got (PSYOPS Germany), and the closest I got to combat was not  in the military but in the Congo or China as a civilian in Tiananmen Square when were were teaching there.
Our daughter who was 17 then got PTSD from that experience.  It was wild times and we were indeed naive.  George


From Phil Scott:
George: Thanks again for reposting about the veterans.  We have just returned from placing flowers on my parents grave and my father in laws grave. My father was landing craft boat commander in the Pacific.  My father in law worked B 29 factory during the war.
Phil Scott


From Undisclosed Source;

Here are two tremendous articles:
One on Flo-Jo the other on Chinese training in Kenya. 
with pictures in Kenya telling the story just as beautifully as the words of the article do.




From Jerry McFadden about my connecting with John Cobley, www.racingpast.ca .

George,
Definitely an interesting contact for you. Great photo, too. You are creating a fantastic global network of old running junkies. I also think you are obtaining enough materials for your own book on running greats!

P.S. I think he tops with a dinner with Michel Bernard & Anders Garderud, at least 2 to 1 (Schul rates with those two!).  Also, yes, Marcel Cedan, France's most famous boxer, died in a trans Atlantic crash. He was Edity Piaf's great love.

Jerry


Notes on Roger Bannister's 4:00 mile anniversary:

Pete Brown sent:
The race went off at 6pm in Oxford, so it was 7 hours earlier on the west coast, or 11am. I learned about it late that afternoon at my grandfather’s house which was on the way home from school, where I was in the 9th grade at Eliot Jr High in Altadena, CA. He had the radio on as I remember. Then I saw Santee a month later run 4:00.5 at Compton. The fans really were into that race with everybody standing and screaming from the time the gun went off.

George wrote:
Yesterday we ran a Roger Bannister anniversary mile at the Comox Valley Road Runners  Club's Tuesday gathering here in Courtenay, BC.   How many other clubs can say that?
Your's truly could only manage a 7:19 (age 71) and got lapped by a guy who ran a 5:13.  

At the track we had two ladies with unique stories , both club members.  One Roz Smith, club president,  had set the Canadian marathon record last Sunday in Vancouver with a 3hr 43 minutes for the 65-69 age group.  This year she has broken the course age group record in every race she has run.

The other Diane Palmerson, also a club member,  was the previous 65-69 age group record holder.    She has held many world best age group records from 200 meters to the marathon over the years.   She participated as a 16 year old sprinter in the 1954 Empire Games in Vancouver and witnessed the Bannister Landy mile and the Jim Peters melt down in the marathon that same day.   She wore her 1954 team blazer yesterday.   Diane is such a perfectionist that she came out and measured where the 440 yard splits would be for the mile on the 400 meter track.    She also talked a bit about the Games that year and mentioned that 220 yards was the longest distance women were allowed to run in those days.   A doctor in the crowd mentioned that "officials' then thought that women would suffer from prolapsed uteruses and not be able to bear children.   Diane then calmly stated, "We asked them if that were the case, why did they allow men to run hurdles?"    
Roy Mason wrote:
7:19, pretty good for an old timer.  Yet I remember the youthful version who, back in the day, outkicked Dexter in the Mendocino Golden Mile 5:23 to 5:26.



When was that about 1995? George
19 years ago?  No, surely not.  More like 3 or 4 as I remember.  But then you could judge from Jacques' age.  He was underage and got served in a restaurant and a bar.  The highlight of his trip as I recall. Roy

Bill Schnier wrote:

George,
   I don't know where you meet all these people but they are really gems.  Had I been in that Bannister race, you would have lapped me.  That's why I am staying out of British Commonwealth countries.  I will concur with the thinking that running a 400 or farther was considered dangerous to child bearing.  My father passed that on to me, not out of any personal knowledge but only because that was the common thinking at that time.  Apparently we have progressed beyond that, far beyond that.  After watching the Flying Pig Marathon on Sunday, I must only conclude that there is thinking that men should not run long distance races.  I would roughly say that 65% of the runners were female.      Bill



at

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V 14 N. 72 A Reprint on Our Article About the 1978 NCAA National XC Meet in Madison, WI

 Here is the link to that article: 1978 NCAA Nationals Madison WI Comments    Thanks for sending this information out.  I too was at the 19...