V 12 N. 42 "What Happened to All the Cinder Tracks, Daddy?" and Where are the Eugene Spectators?

 June 6, 2022,

Yesterday I did a workout on one of the few remaining cinder tracks on Vancouver Island.  It is hidden in a forest near the Comox Airport and Canadian Forces base.   I'm not sure if it's a 440 yards or 400 meters, probably the former.  When did they ever build a 400 meter cinder track since the 1960's in Canada?  

Here's a couple of pictures:

Yes, they appear to be red brick composite, not cinders but close.

Scary too that it might be sprayed with herbicide to keep the grass from encroaching.  It is hardly ever used.

Here is why this blog edition got started.   I was thinking of a great cinder track not far from my former home in Kettering, Ohio.  The last time I visited there, some asshole civil servant decided it would be nice to pave it with asphalt.  It serves no purpose now except maybe for some kids on their tricycles.  

The former Kettering, Ohio Track link.    Every track guy I knew in the area thought this was an abomination.  A lot of runners both serious and recreational used it and loved it.  So this got me to looking for other old tracks of my boyhood and yours.   

I can think of three other tracks of pre-all weather composition here on the island.  One is at Phoenix Middle School  in Campbell River about 25 miles north of here (Comox, BC) and another at Cowichan High School  school in Duncan, for the most part unused as there is only one serviceable lane.  There is an all weather track nearby.   A third is on Flores Island  a small island in the First Nation of Ahousat off the west coast of Vancouver Island.   Apart from that I'm at a loss for more old time tracks around here.   

I'm bringing this up because like most of you I cut my teeth on cinders training at the old Belmont High School in Dayton, Ohio from 1957-61.  That track still exists even though the school was torn down and a replacement built a few blocks away.  It was composed of furnace droppings.  The term 'cinders' is too polite.  Two and three inch clinkers were common to see on that track.  If it looked like rain was predicted, the fourth corner would already be under water.  Still, training on that surface may have saved a lot of injuries that otherwise might have occurred on a harder surface.  When we went to the Dayton city high school stadium for our meets it was like running on silk.   Here's a picture of that Belmont HS track about 5 years ago.  

Here's another one I just discovered in Dayton, OH.  It's a five lapper behind what used to be Wilbur Wright HS, now Wright Brothers Middle School.  

Wilbur Wright HS 5 lap track Dayton, OH

Nice job on cinder tracks.  There are thousands more so they might emerge over time.  

   I loved the Google shot of the Wilbur Wright track as well as my neighborhood and house.  I spent most of my childhood at that field and one block to the west.  Our house (3 boys) was 506 Burkhardt, corner of Burkhardt & Hedges.  We called our side yard Wagner Field after Honus Wagner.  The Leopards (4 boys) lived at 532 Burkhardt, corner of Burkhardt & Garland.  I learned basketball in their full court garage behind their house and later in the alley behind their house.  All quite primitive but we maximized everything.  We walked through the woods every day during the summer to play baseball and crawled under the fence to access the field.  The track was formerly on the upper field but about 1964 moved to the lover field where it remains today.  It was 5 laps to the mile and the site of my first 880 in August, 1964.  I was considering switching from baseball to track so I put on my baseball spikes and ran 2-1/2 laps on that track, timed by my brother, Greg, with a Timex wrist watch.  My time was 2:16 but I knew I could go faster, and eventually did.  The track exists today, not because it is used but because nothing has been built in its place.  On the corner of 5th and Wright is the site of my grade school, Orville Wright, now just grass.  Soon we will be just grass.  Bill Schnier

God, I found another one near Dayton.  Jefferson Twp. HS  and it's a totally neglected track surrounding a football field.  Jefferson Twp. HS , Dayton, OH    link to google maps aerial photo.

                                 The track at Maaqtusiis Secondary School   on Flores Island at Ahousat First Nation off the west coast of Vancouver Island.  Only 1,100 people live here and the track takes up a lot of room in that community.  Should we call this Tracktown, Canada?

                                                        Track at Phoenix Middle School   link

Here is the third track in my  area 

Phoenix Middle School in Campbell River, British Columbia

Track at Cowichan HS Duncan, BC  link

(These two photos are taken off googlemaps)

So how many cinder or dirt tracks still remain within a hour of your home?  People read this from all over the country.  I'd be happy to get some responses or pictures of your modern day cinder tracks.  Also, does anyone know of any odd shaped or length tracks?  Not quite symmetric or  3 to 5 laps to a mile?  Also do you think there are some advantages to training on cinders as opposed to all weather tracks in the matter of injury prevention?  

Sutter Middle School  Folsom, California   link

Hi George,

 

I am the distance and XC coach at Sutter Middle School in Folsom, CA (20 miles east of Sacramento).  I don’t know if you can call our track a cinder one, more like dirt and sand, and when the geese come, a mixture of dirt, sand, and poop.  It is not lined, so we have all rainbow starts in our track workouts.  When we do have meets, their times plummeted on the nice HS artificial tracks.  Don Betowski

George

In Monroe, LA a middle school had a red cinder (termed Red Dog Track) chopped up bricks.Ouachita Jr HS 'red dog track  link  We did one workout each winter - first workout after Christmas break. 20 x 400 with :60 rest. Men start at 80, women at 90 and drop 1 sec each hard effort. Workout done in training shoes. First 10 are pretty easy, then gets harder. Only a couple could actually finish all 20, but a great rust buster.

College of Coastal Georgia (Brunswick) had a dirt track (440 originally, but grass encroaching probably made it 450 yards!). Would do some cross country stuff there and early season track stuff. Brunswick HS across the street had an all weather 400m surface for more quality workouts.

Bruce Kritzler

  College of Coastal Georgia   link.    Still looks like dirt to me

First, odd shaped tracks.

Get Paul, Steve and some of the old UCTC guys to talk about the old
University of Chicago Stagg Field track.  It was more oval shaped than
anything with long curves and fairly short straightaways.  It was the
finest track I have ever run on especially when, after the 1959 Pan
American Games, the surface of the track, built just for that meet in
Soldiers Field, was scooped up, put in barrels and transported to Stagg
Field where the UCTC guys and volunteers spread it out and tamped it
down again.   A November 28, 1960 article, Run For Its Money by Ray
Cave, has more detail.  Alas, a library now sits on that site.  Thomas Coyne

Thanks Thomas and I think the world's first controlled nuclear reaction took place under the grandstands of that track.  There's a monument commemorating it. The Manhattan Project George

An article about the U of Chicago track appeared in Sports Illustrated Nov 28, 1960 by Ray Cave.  It came from England in barrels and was used for the 1959 Pan Am Games and then transferred to the university afterward.    It was the same recipe as the famous Santry track in Dublin where Herb Elliott set his WR in the mile in 1958 as 4 other runners in that race also broke 4 minutes that night.  The track was described as miraculous.  

Here is Cave's article   Ray Cave's article on the Pan Am track   link

Another UCTC guy chimes in about the move of that track.

"The track for the 1959 Pan-American games on Soldier's Field,  Chicago was dug up and brought to Hyde Park and I think installed in time for the 1961 dual US Poland meet. I remember specifically not volunteering to do the grunt work."  Ned Price

U of Zimbabwe Track Harare, Zim   Ran a few races here in the 1980's.  Looks like it is still dirt.

Bernard Mzeki College, Marondera Zimbabwe  coached and ran here 1982-85.  Sometimes cows were grazing on the infield during meets, and we had to pick up the cow pies off the track before those  home meets.

 George

Moving on:  You like many others have probably noted the paucity of spectators at the NCAA meet in Eugene which is currently underway.  Why so?  Weather has certainly been an issue at the last few meets there, but WTF?  Or maybe the greater number of seats in the new stadium gives that appearance?  We'll get the proof at the upcoming world championships?  People have lately been saying that the only place to attract a large group of spectators for track and field in the US are Eugene and Philadelphia for the Penn Relays.  Maybe it's down to one place now.  

Here's an opinion from Bill Schnier, former U. of Cincinnati head coach.

The attendance is terrible, especially for a city which bills itself as Tracktown USA.  This might be the worst attendance ever at an NCAA championship.  Why?  I don't know.  Maybe too many track meets in Eugene, no longer a novelty.  Maybe too close to the Pre-Classic and the World Championships.  Maybe the shortage of hotels in Eugene.  Maybe the hassle of getting tickets and having trouble getting them returned if there is no meet.  Maybe price gouging by the University of Oregon.  Maybe the difficulty of traveling to Portland or Eugene.  Maybe the fear of COVID on plane rides and in stadiums.  Maybe they got out of the mood in Eugene.  Maybe it is not returning to the shrine of historic Hayward Field.  Maybe it is the turnoff of massive Nike and the monopoly they have become in T&F and the cheating of the Oregon Distance Project.  Maybe it is the uncertainty of weather, too hot last year, too cool and rainy this year.  Maybe T&F as a spectator sport is just not as important.  Maybe because Oregon has gone big time in football and basketball and Tracktown USA is just like any other town bowing to the dominance of other sports.  Maybe all of these.  Maybe things we have not even considered.  Who knows but the attendance is still very, very small. 

I also wondered about the lack of spectators at the NCAA meet.  I would
offer as an opinion that it is a  combination of the bigger stadium and
the decline in track and field fandom.  It will only get worse as more
universities drop men's track and field.  Thomas Coyne

From Bob Roncker, who is in attendance at the NCAA's.

Bill and others,

All of these views are valid. I am currently in Eugene. A month or so ago I saw ALL the track events scheduled for Hayward this Spring. It was a track nut's dream and perhaps there is an overload for the moderate track Duck fan that lives in the area. This person primarily roots for the name on the shirt rather than the sport.

Oregon is not a team contender in either division this year so that lessens the incentive for locals to attend this year. In addition I see no compelling individual personality commanding their attention. When Duck (former UC) distance runner Aaron Bienefeld was introduced there was no additional applause. 

Last night as I was sitting in Hayward watching the men’s final I was thinking of what I was missing not watching it on TV. Perhaps this is my problem. Instead of focusing on and enjoying some of the action that is taking place, I want to see and understand all that is occurring. We all know a meet has been compared to a three ring circus. A well produced TV presentation, and it appears to me they are dramatically improving, shows footage and material that is hard to duplicate in person. 

I plan on returning to Eugene in two weeks for the Trials as part of a Track & Field News tour group, in a large part to be surrounded by fellow track nuts. Although I originally planned on attending the World Championships I decided I could follow it better via TV and computer at home. 

For me, at my stage of life, attending a track meet in person is a pleasant experience (if the weather is cooperative) and there is no TV available. It is a great opportunity to see friends and watch the competition. Still, the announcing typically adds little to the presentation of the meet. That is a frustration for me. So much more could easily be done. For major meets with good TV presentation I am finding myself more and more content to remain at home. 

Perhaps I should accept the fact that now track and field is a niche sport for most people and enjoy its uniqueness and the people it attracts. I doubt or wonder if a top trackster will ever grace the cover of Sport’s Illustrated again (I don’t even know if it is still published). If the stands aren’t filled, so be it. 

Bob

Bill and others,

Before answering whether I prefer watching the meet in the new or old version of the stadium I am going to give you Jim Hill’s take on the stadium. Jim was an outstanding runner (international class) who ran for Dellinger. Upon graduation he founded a company called SportHill here in Eugene where he remains living.  We became friends through our store.  I thought his perspective as one who both ran in the old stadium and witnessed many meets here would be informative. Here is is response. 

(Comments by Jim Hill)

Hi Bob,

Thanks for sharing this.  What I liked about the old Hayward Field was the view of the Butte, Coburg Hills, and Hendrix parks hills, getting out of the rain on the east side,  but foremost the great moments we had there. What I love about the new stadium are the seats, minimal wind, great sound system, insane video board, good access to bathrooms and food, crowd applause seems to be amplified, comfortable seats, amazing over the top training facility, and did I mention the seats? They are super comfortable.

 If I were a runner on the Oregon team I would prefer the new stadium 10 to 1 over the old.  I miss the sawdust inside lane but only because it brings back good memories warming up and warming down on it.  On some easy days I might spend an hour just doing laps there.  For a very long time the old stadium was open to the public which I thought was unique and special but of course that had to wind down.  

Cheers

Jim

Jim seems to have a seating phobia. And, he is right. It is much more comfortable in the new stadium. The seating and other amenities do make for a better viewing experience now.  I wish some of the old stadium, per Tinker Hatfield’s design, could have been incorporated with all the improvements but it is an amazing site. 

Bob

I am also surprised/disappointed by the attendance @ the NCAA meet & also @ Pre. Bob, tell Jim my 2 pairs of Sport Hills are still the best outdoor running pants I have, despite many years of use.

Frank Murphy 

I recall reading in Tim Johnston's book   "Otto Pelzer, His Own Man"  that Pelzer the former WR holder at 1500 had such a difficult time with the L.A. Coliseum track in 1932, because it was hard as concrete, and his spikes would not penetrate into it.  He ran poorly possibly because of this.  At that time the German team was operating on such a bare bones budget that they could not afford to take the team's shoes to a machine shop and have the spikes ground down nor could they buy at grinder and do it themselves.

As to odd track sizes, the Iffley road track where Roger Bannister first broke the WR for the mile originally was a three laps to a mile track and there were distinct rises and falls on the back stretch.  As an undergrad, Bannister campaigned and lobbied to get the track reconfigured to 440 yards and was successful.  He therefore set his own stage so to speak.     George

I  don't miss cinder tracks. I have plenty of cinders under my skin permanently from falls on cinder  tracks. Still, it's a nice piece of nostalgia, and you look good, George.   SVM     FYI  Stephen Morelock was a hurdler at the U. of Oklahoma.  

For a good story about the famous Santry track in Dublin, Ireland see following from the Irish Times , 2008, by Ian O'Rioradan.     The Santry track  link.