Lately I've been having online conversations with old running friends, sometimes with myself, occasionally God forbid on Facebook. The theme has generally been, what is too much training? That dilemma has always been a part of coaching oneself and others. In the distant past I think we can all agree that in the late 50's and 60's many of us did way too much. Maybe not on any one day, but definitely from day to day, we really didn't take much rest. The philosophy was often, "If I'm going to beat somebody, I've gotta out train him." I remember when a week of training meant a day of 440's, a day of 880's, a day of 1320's and a day of 220's, . The more the better, the faster even better. Friday we travelled, Saturday we raced (sometimes two and three races at two-day meets) and came home, and Sunday we rested or did a 4 mile jog. I also remember by the end of my third year of college, I was a total burnout and it took almost 9 years to get over it. In my early racing years I did very little distance training. It was too hard and our shoes were shit, to quote Bill Bowerman. An 8 mile run in the summer was tops. Hardly anything like that once back in school in September.
Now in my/our 'golden' era, ( some don't want to use the terms 'elderly, old" or other condescending terms for those humans over 70), and I guess I should respect that, I'm wondering how we know when enough is enough in our plodding over tracks and trails. Some have had too many joint replacements, injuries, or illnesses to be concerned anymore. But for the fortunate few, the question still remains.
I mentioned in a letter recently to a few guys that I ran a couple of mile time trials lately after getting over the Omicron variant which had left me with blood clots in one leg and both lungs. Got placed on blood thinners and told to take it easy. What's easy? Hard to define.
You will shortly see some responses from several former competitive runners and coaches. And additionally I will also bring up the topic of young children running marathons (too much too soon?) as a six year old recently ran a marathon in Cincinnati and Children's Services came knocking on the door.
Okay so here's the bit on what's enough for a senior runner.
May 9
Since getting Omicron in February and picking up; blood clots in right leg and both lungs, I've been trying to come back slowly to exercising without blowing a gasket. No way really of telling what would be too much. But recovery between exercise bouts has been slow, even from long walks. Anyway last week I did virtually nothing for four days travelling up to Alert Bay on Cormorant Island off the northeast coast of Vancouver Island.
When I got back I went for a walk and felt incredibly strong in the legs compared to how I had been feeling for the last three months. So I decided to run a mile yesterday on a flat trail I had run some previous 'time trials' on. Both of those efforts had been slooow. 12 min. then 10:25 about a week ago. Yesterday I hit 9:35, so maybe it was insufficient rest that was the problem. Isn't that what I've been telling myself for years about my training as a 19 and 20 year and 30 year old? Last summer at the 'peak' of my running I had an 8:55 on a similar course. I plan to take some more time off and do this again. It wasn't easy, but it was enjoyable. The trail is straight and flat between two roads that are a mile apart, following an old logging railway path. I'm still intimidated getting on a track to run time trials. Through a beautiful green forest is a lot more relaxing. George
From Roy Mason (knee replacement has kept him off the trails and roads but he is still a workout maniac)
Good to hear you are on the mend. I have experienced the same thing in my workouts. As I have been able to maintain intensity through age 81, I thought there was no reason I couldn't continue hard workouts into my nineties. In the last year, reality hit. Could still do tough weightroom workouts (24 stations, half at max, half concentration, depending on the day) and get the occasional PR at one of the flat out stations, but the price was feeling like shit for the next 2-3 days. Started taking days off and immediately felt better. My workout frequency dropped from 91% in 2020 to 82% in '21 to 68% this year and I feel better although there are some guilt pangs over missing a day. I have three workouts - the big boy flat out weightroom routine, 30 minutes of fairly intense work on the exercise bike and a lighter routine with dumbbells at home. They are done with equal frequency. I have a Mr. Roger's Neighborhood tee shirt, probably 40 years old, that I wear in the weight room. Twice I have been asked. Mr. Rogers? Who's that? Roy
from Bill Schnier former U. of Cincinnati head coach (30+ years) and competitive runner
Thanks for the update. The fact that you are timing yourself indicates a trend toward too much. However, better times continue to be motivating, even though we compare ourselves against our worst self. Sounds as if you are still keeping it at the right tempo. Bill
from Bruce Kritzler former coach U of Louisiana Monroe and U North Carolina Wilmington and long time Master's runner.
good run (time trial) George.
and finally from Bill Blewett in Maryland. Bill was an incredible 'walk on' at Oklahoma 4:02 mile and sub 14:00 3 mile. Won the Peach Tree Road Race back in the 70's. He's now on a lifetime regimen of chemo every three weeks for a form of leukemia.
George, that's an interesting perspective on work-rest balance for us elderly (I don't like that adjective) runners. Of course, Billy Mills took a year and a half off after graduating from Kansas, and when he began to run again, he found himself so surprisingly strong that he went on to win gold in Tokyo a year into his comeback. I suspect he overtrained in his college days under Bill Easton and the long hiatus allowed his body to heal the cumulative damage.
I feel that at age 74, I am getting stronger as my therapy continues, even though I cannot yet get back to jogging. My workouts are 1/2 to 1 mile a day of walking, mostly on the treadmill, 2.5 mph, and I find that can now go down stairs faster, that I am no longer stiff and sluggish when I get up from sitting for an hour in front of the computer. I am starting to do pushups again, and they are getting easier each week. There is hope.
George again: So I'm inclined to believe the harder we work, the more rest we need. Work easy, rest easy, work hard, rest a longer time. Experiment and find what works for you. I like John Perry's running repeat 100 meters. You can do it at a pretty good clip and back off before you get tired. Check what you did for the workout 16 x 100 and you've got a pretty good mile under your belt. You raised you heart rate, let it come down and pushed it up again. Talking to Bob Schul once (very Igloi trained) he said nothing over 400 meters ever did him any good for running 5,000 meters. Also when I was a grad student at the Human Performance Lab at Ball State, Dave Costill the very well known director of the lab had an axiom of 20 minutes, three times a week at about 70% of max heart rate was enough to keep an adult fit. Dave, if you read this, please correct me on this if I've erred.
I would love to hear readers' thoughts on this and will add them to the article.
Now, go get a beer and get ready for Part Twol
Okay, so you're on your second beer.
Yesterday I shot my mouth off on FB on a totally different subject and scrolled down and noted that some folks were "shocked, Louie, shocked" to quote Adolph Menjou in "Casablanca" that a six year old had run a marathon in Cincinnati, and his father had given him some Pringles to continue when the child started to cry. Apparently Children's Services made a house call when the story got out. I doubt that the child was removed from the care of the parents. It was Kentucky. It usually takes a lot more like the parents are whacked out druggies and the child has crawled out the second floor window and is on the roof or riding his trike down the Interstate against the flow of traffic, or unfortunately a lot worse. I was curious as to whether there were records for young kids running marathons.
I found that 9 year old Wesley Paul on January 25, 1969 ran a 2:56:57 marathon in Huntsville, AL. Wesley lived in Overland Park, KS, so Mom and Dad were definitely into this travelling that far for a race. Also at age 7 Wesley had run a 4hr 4 min. marathon. Mom and Dad were working on their PhD.'s in math.
So what is your feeling about kids running marathons? Doing a bit of internet trolling I found that approximately 75 kids 8-13 years old had run in the NYC Marathon before the organizers raised the age limit first to 16 and now to 18. Age of consent? (age of consent in Alabama 12, 13 in Tennessee).
Should it be considered abuse if you train your kid to run a marathon if he or she is 6 years old? I guess it depends on what the child likes to do. Would it be better if he sat in front of a video screen all day or as I've often seen in coffee shops, some neglectful parents on their cell phones while a toddler is desperately trying to get their attention from its stroller? There's a vague line somewhere and I think each case of a child running a marathon or walking a tight rope has to be individually evaluated.
Wesley Paul, mentioned earlier, continued running until age 15 when he was hit by a car and broke a knee cap. Now he's a lawyer, jogs some and is into rowing. He also doesn't regret a day of his childhood marathoning according to another article about him by Debra Cassens Weiss in the American Bar Association Journal, Oct. 25, 2009. link: https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/these_lawyers_ran_the_nyc_marathon_at_the_ages_of_8_and_9
For the girls, nine year old Julie Mullin ran a 2 hr 58:01 on August 30, 1966 at Seaside Oregon. I could not find what has become of Julie. I somehow doubt that she is living under a bridge.
Both these kids did these times, many years ago. If kids were still doing marathons I'm sure the records would be somewhat lower, so the interest seems to have waned. We as parents all like to see our kids succeed. That's why we have age group records. The question is where to draw the limits. I doubt now that marathon camps for toddlers would be very profitable. There are other ways to help your child shine. I have witnessed this with my own eyes at dance studios. We make young girls stand on the points of their toes and look 'beautiful' for doting mothers, fathers, and grandparents. They practice for hours, some 5-6 days a week. They dream of being prima ballerinas, and when they reach puberty, many are shown the door because nature has been unkind to their figures and they cannot walk through that template that gets a woman into a famous ballet school. Is that any less arrogant than a parent encouraging a child to run a marathon? But we seldom if ever ask this question about the arts.
It is sometimes preached at sports banquets that sport prepares you for life. The highs and lows and the need to change often come the way of the aspiring athlete. But the confidence to persevere in hard times is also one of the great lessons of sport even when it sometimes robs us of our childhood . In the Ukraine today, thousands of people are being tested in the most insidious of ways. I truly believe that the athletes and dancers have the best chances of survival.
Budhia Singh (born 2002) is an Indian long-distance runner who became notable for his athletic feats as a child. He has been acclaimed as the world's youngest marathon runner. He ran from Puri to Bhubaneswar at the age of five covering 65 kilometres (40 mi) in seven hours and two minutes and was listed as the world's youngest marathon runner in the 2006 edition of the Limca Book of Records, an ... |
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