V 12 N. 40 Tuesday Morning Musings, The Pre, Uvalde, Life in General

May 31, 2022 

I didn't go to the Pre this past weekend even though the option was on the table.  The mind is willing, the aging body is weakening.  A month ago I had high hopes of seeing the new stadium and watching what looked on paper to be a bang up kick-off to an incredible track Spring and Summer only 500 miles south of Vancouver Island where I live.  But Covid has taken a toll on this aging human specimen and blood clots in my right leg have made driving that distance a challenge for me and possibly a danger for others on the road if I can't find the brake when I need it because of a very numb right foot.  My potential co-driver, Jon Little, was caught up in a law suit in North Carolina, trying to prove that his client had been sexually abused by her swimming coach when she was a minor.  The jury didn't quite believe it and Jon only arrived home a day before we could have left for Eugene.  

The upside was a very nice and unexpected visit from one of my former athletes, Tara Storage,  U. of Dayton (2002) and Olympic Trials qualifier in the marathon with her 2 hr 39 min. performance.  She has also represented the US in the world half marathon championships in Italy back in the day.  Tara and her fiance, Faustino came to the island for a quick visit and we spent the day together getting reacquainted and seeing a few sites on the east and west coasts.  

So I was relegated on Saturday to watching the races from Eugene on the tube from the comfort of my living room.  I had already notified the organizers that my press credentials would not be used.  That hopefully would assure them that a second attempt to go there for the NCAA's, the US trials, and/or the Worlds would be legit.  Problem though is there are different organizations to apply to for each of these events.  

We had promises of world record attempts to be made on the men's 10,000,  women's 2 miles, a show down in the women's and men's 100 meters, the two best men's milers in the world would go head to head, the best women's miler would be there, a women's record attempt at 800, and a pole vault event featuring the two best vaulters in the world and the same in the men's shot and women's discus.  How could you go wrong going to see this?  You couldn't.  But unfortunately some of the hopes got dashed by the weather.  It was cool and blustery.  On Friday events got shuffled and some Saturday throwing got changed to Friday night.  Ultimately there was a lot of hope, and it was still a great meet, just not any of the promised records.  Is that what track needs to get the world's attention?  I don't think so. Maybe the organizers were hoping that would turn the unknowledgeable heads toward the event, but is that necessary to keep a sport on the map?  It shouldn't.  

People still come to watch a baseball game where there are incredible numbers of records in the books, but I never heard of anyone going to a game or watching on TV it to see a record set since Roger Maris was going for 61 home runs more than fifty years ago.  Truth is, you don't know what you're going to get when you go to a ball game, you just go there to watch the game, to be in the moment with your heroes, or your children and maybe that's all we need to do to enjoy our sport.  

What I did miss about not getting to the Pre was the interaction with the athletes at the press conference, the meetings with old friends at the meet, the post race views of athletes after the oxygen returned to their brains, sitting with my blog colleague Roy Mason and remembering some of the old days and events of the past, eating at Track Town Pizza and seeing who shows up there or at the bar across the street with the same attractions in the evening.  I missed seeing friends on the way to the meet in Seattle, Portland, Beaverton, Albany.   I didn't miss crossing the US Canada border and proving to my host country Canada that I was Covid free and didn't have to go into a quarantine status.  

The most controversial thing in this meet or any big meet now is the use of pacing lights.  Do they matter?  Here are a few comments on the subject.

"The Pre kind of fizzled after a lot of build up about possible world records. Wind was in the runners' faces on the backstretch.   I don't think runners should be expected to perform with that kind of promotion.  WR's come when they come.  Pace lights are a distraction to a good race between people with different mindsets.  If everyone is watching the pace lights they forget about the human interaction and competition.  Might as well just have one runner at a time run. Pace lights might be better used for training although what would a coach have to do during practice if he or she didn't have to shout out times and splits.  Do we learn pace better by thinking about it while we are running or following the bouncing ball?  Today runners carry a lot of electronic feedback that may in fact guide them to better performances, but does that take away from the sport?   We used to hypothesize a race from five different locations at the same time. Everyone on a treadmill and they got instant feedback about how fast the other runners were going and they could up the speed of their treadmill to play catch up or go ahead."

George

 " I agree with you about the pacing lights.  It puts such a priority on pacing rather than head-to-head competition.  I have never run with such lights but when I watch I spend way too much time looking at the lights, a real distraction.  Just because you can do such a thing does not mean you should."  Bill

To continue:

The events of Uvalde, Texas makes my disappointment inconsequential.    It was in my mind constantly and still is.  All those children who will never get a chance to do the things we all have done in our lives. To run a race, hit a ball, swim, read a great book.  To fall in love.  To see their children grow.  Never a chance to experience the joys as well as the sorrows of life.  Their poor parents who will carry this trauma for the rest of their lives, if only there were a way to help them.  The trauma of the people who had to go in and identify and remove  those children, to clean them up and prepare them for burial, even the cops who will be asking themselves the rest of their lives why they failed to react better.  The children who survived who will carry those nightmares in everything they do.  And we as Americans who will keep hearing these stories and forgetting them.  I couldn't remember many of the past shootings when the news people started listing them and saying how many were killed in those other massacres.  I think this puts me in the group who wishes to see the ban of assault guns in the US as a beginning to an eventual disarming of the American public.   We could still fight, steal, or kill, which is a part of Darwinian evolution but without the horrendous side effects and consequences that these weapons provide.  

Some thoughts about your terrific posting:

1.  The cool and blustery weather in Eugene and 100+ temps at the last Olympic Trials makes me wonder about the reliability of the marine climate formerly typical of Eugene.

2.  Predicting world records is a joke, a scam event P.T. Barnum would not consider.  Let the event stand on its own merit and watch the fans return next year.  It is enough.

3.  Ban all assault rifles and all military weapons.  The following are not available to the general public:  bombers, fighter planes, bazookas, and flame throwers.  The legislators all have a line which they will draw in the sand, but drawing that line beneath assault rifles has not worked.  Let's draw the line above assault rifles.  The other restrictions such as mental illness, registration, etc. are small potatoes.  The only reason for civilian assault rifles is to kill people.  Everyone wants to eliminate mass shootings in schools, churches, and malls.  Banning such rifles is by far the best solution.  But wait!   What Is the real reason the GOP and right wingers balk at that?  Is there someone else in our country they wish to see killed en masse? Bill

V 12 N. 39 Russian Hospitality, in Peace and War

If this is what Paul O'Shea saw in Moscow as a paid up tourist, what can Ukranian POW's expect?

The Horsemen of the Apocalypse Watched Us at the Moscow Worlds

By Paul O’Shea

There’s an old saying: what you are becoming, you will become.

Today we see unimaginable Ukrainian bravery in the face of unspeakable Russian cruelty,

reminding me of Russian control tactics and contempt for the West.

Nine years ago I went to the world track and field championships in Moscow. Almost two

thousand athletes from over two hundred countries participated. It was the world’s biggest

sporting event of the year.

When I first walked into Luzhniki Stadium, the ping of a starting gun, the brilliance of the Air

Force blue running track and the hush trapped inside the arena are sounds and sights I still

remember. 

 Ukrainian athletes performed under their own flag (they competed for Russia in previous

meetings). Ukrainian azure blue and lemon yellow, now so much a part of world concern and

culture, floated over hundreds of supporters. When Ukrainian high jumper Bohan Bondorenko

won his event, though missing at a world record height, cheers rained down to trackside. Their

boisterous fans were some of the best organized followers.

At the end of one day’s events our hosts showed their scorn for the American and British guests

who sat together. While Russian fans quickly left the venue, stadium staff stood shoulder to

shoulder at the bottom of our aisles, blocking us from leaving. They relented, eventually. But

the point was made.

Another exhibition of Russian muscle was more intimidating, more ominous.

Leaving the stadium we walked past Lenin’s statue, three tree-lined blocks to the Sportivnaya

Metro station. When we neared the entrance a phalanx of fifty or so Russian impassive soldiers,

mounted on Triple Crown horses, were packed tightly together on each side of the road. Eerily

quiet, only deep breathing sounds coming from the mouths of the muscular animals were

audible.

I wonder if the horsemen I saw then are participating in today’s special military operation.

What you are becoming, you will become.\

 Very interesting insight by Paul O'Shea.  Strange that the Russian officials were more interested in intimidation than hospitality.  That remains true.  No wonder so many people want to leave Russia. Bill Schnier

Saw this link on ESPN.com while looking for pictures. ed.

Ukranian Athletes Now Training in Albania

V 12 N. 38 Vangelis Composer of Chariots of Fire Theme, R.I.P.

 May 20, 2022

Caught the following story in The Guardian today that composer of 'Chariots of Fire' theme Vangelis died at age 79.

Always liked that intro to the movie of the guys running down the beach.  Downside was they were all sprinters.  Distance runners got no mention in that film.   Actors all, and the music was not really that good to inspire you when trying to run a workout, because it was a bit too slow unless you were an LSD freak.  The electronic under beat though was up to speed.   Still the photography that went with the music was beautifully coordinated. And you can see and be reminded of those relationships in the youtube clip below.   Coach athlete relationships were well done.  Upper class versus underclass were an undertone in the story.  The major male actors too are all departed,  Ben Cross (Harold Abramson),  Ian Holm (Sam Musabini), and Ian Charlton (Eric Liddell)

Here's the link to the Guardian story by  Adam Sweeting       Vangelis Obituary

The Theme   Link:    Chariots of Fire     a great visual synopsis of the whole film in this.  Any dry eyes after watching this?

A classic.            David Costill

V 12 N. 37 Conversations with Richard Mach As A High Schooler Breaks Jim Ryun's 57 Years Old Mile Record

 Here is a series of conversations with Richard Mach former Western Michigan runner about Gary Martin who recently broke Jim Ryun's high school runners only, no pacers, record set in 1965.  That led to why are Kenyans so good, and digressed to other subjects.

                                                                Gary Martin

High school student runs sub-4 minute mile, breaking record
Gary Martin has gotten extremely close to breaking this record during other track meets this year, but at a meet on Monday, he finally did it.

Read in CBS News: https://apple.news/A6ljEJBaPQ4K3lXGoUCluzA

Shared from Apple News

Richard,

He looks like a throw back from British Public School 1950's  even the haircut.  May have been at Iffley Road, Oxford in 1954 in another life.

Well, done, Lad, now back to the books and get ready for your O Levels.

George

Just learned that within an hour of that HS-only 3:57.98, Gary Martin posted a 1:51.29 for 800 m and then came back to anchor his school’s 4 x 4 in 49.14. That same evening he played 2 hrs of 3 on 3 BB.  He’s someone to watch.  Saw an interview.   Likes the limelight.  Level headed enough.  Ran remarkably even pace.  A clock in his head.      Richard

Hope he doesn't burn himself out.   George  

Early maturation.     

Ryun runs his first sub 4 as a HS Jr then 4 more in the space of 43 days in his Sr yr, 1965.   Then Danielson in ‘66 and Liquori  in ‘66.  Then there’s a break of 34 yrs until 2001 and Webb blitzes a 3:53.  A decade passes then Verzbicas.  And then 4 yrs later Maton and Fisher in 2015.  Then 7 different hs milers over the next 7 yrs.   Early maturation.  

Cultural pressures accelerating maturation socially and emotionally are pushing earlier physical maturation.  A still photo of Martin underway suggests he’s 21-22.  

And, as an example, we have the 17.73 yr old Kenyan 800 m runner, Timothy Kitum, clocking 1:42.53 in the London OG for bronze in the WR setting race won by his teammate, David Rudisha, the only talent ever who could run a 48.3 first 400 and look like he was jogging.  Richard

And Nigel Amos, the now world class lurcher from Botswana, was but 18 yrs, 5 mos in London when he ran 1:41.73 for silver.  While Eliud Kipchige is a phenomenal exception and extreme outlier when it comes down to talent, 
the notion of early maturation is supported by the Kenyan phenoms also leaving the world stage early as well.  Perhaps your time on the continent might engender some thoughts on the matter?  Richard

Not sure my time on the continent makes me more of an expert, but will have a go.    

1. First generalization is Kenyans growing up at altitude for many 

generations and perhaps physiologically better able to carry an oxygen debt (higher hemoglobin levels, lung capacities, O2 exchange capacity?) because of that.

   

2. Secondly diet and lack of sitting around in front of a TV in 

early childhood.  Living on mom's milk,  then high carbohydrate diet, of corn meal, limited protein, makes for some lean children.  (Wanna solve our infant formula problem?  Get back to breast feeding.)

3. Next walking barefoot for six or more years before they get their first pair of shoes, perhaps aiding foot development.  Walking and running everywhere including the run to school and back everyday, for some that's five or six miles, again at altitude.  Playing soccer at school, developing strength through intervals in the game.  Working when they get home tending cattle, or in the fields.  

4. Girls going for firewood and hauling more than half their body weight on their backs or heads, who needs a gym?

 

5. Kids developing an independent spirit in play sometimes out for days at a young age with their peers in the forest.  That means in the bush with other kids four and five years old with knives or machetes to gather food while out there.  

6. Once they discover running in competition at school and learn that it is a means out of poverty  toward riches and a better life, there must be incredible incentive, it's a means of survival in a tough world. 

7.  Pour all that into a mixing pot and skimming off the cream and you have some incredible individuals well suited for the sport. 

8. Once discovered they will then be spirited away to a couple of schools where there are some great coaches including that Irish brother ( Colm O’Connell at St Patrick’s High School in Iten ).  He has coached a lot of the great ones.   If you look at the map of Kenya, you are drawing these runners out of a very small area of the country.  You don't find them coming from the coast or Sudanese border areas or from the slums of Nairobi.  It's out in the Western highlands and Rift valley area.  A few come from Eastern Uganda bordering on the Western Highlands, but they are closely related and live a similar lifestyle. 

9.Of the very successful I'm not sure you will find a second generation of great runners.  The successful runners now have money and live a more comfortable lifestyle that will soften the next generation.  Kip Keino's son Martin was fairly good but not great.  I think he went to Rutgers on a scholarship, but I don't recall him winning any national championships anywhere.  

10.They say that Eliud Kipchoge lives a monastic life on a farm and houses a bunch of up and comers there.

10. Corruption is also a part of the game now in Kenya with agents and Kenya Athletics people, aka vultures, taking over a lot of the young runners and widespread doping.  Anything to get in on that prize and  sponsorship money available in Europe or the marathon circuit.  Still a bunch of clean  great ones seem to keep coming out of the woodwork. 

And furthermore,

I should add that the Rudisha's (father and son) are an exception to my second generation theory.  They are Masai, a very different cultural group from the Nandi, Kalinjin  and other tribes that have produced great Kenyan runners.  Apparently David is bulkier than the typical Kenyan distance runner.  He started out as a decathlete.  HIs father Daniel was an excellent 400 runner (45.5) and Olympic silver medallist in 4x400 at Mexico City 1968.  He passed away in 2019, heart attack while being treated for diabetes.

David Rudisha (son)

Daniel  Rudisha (father)

Having lived in Masailand in the 1960's I remember once a group of young Masai men who "borrowed" some cattle.  (This is not a bad thing in their culture.)  They herded the cattle overnight almost 50 miles.  That takes some stamina even on a horse which they did not have at their disposal.  

Your favorite,  Nigel Amos,  I cannot account for.  Botswanans are not living at high altitude, but the influence of sport crazy South Africa is there.   

South Africans,  many do live at 5000 feet in the interior and may derive some benefits and there have been some very good South African marathoners.  In the 400-800 range.  Van Nieukirk  is a whole other story, mixed race getting benefits from a wider swath of DNA and some good coaching from a seventy years old lady.  What a shame he blew out his knee in a charity, low contact rugby gig.  

It looks to me like Gary Martin, like Jim Ryun, has an abundance of God-given talent and plans to use it.

Bruce Geelhoed

Enjoyed these comments.  Time will tell but I suspect Gary Martin will be good for a long time.  His 400 & 800 times are good but probably stem from great interval training rather than speed which will eventually limit his potential.  I see him being a 1500/5000 guy.    Bill Schnier

PS.  Anonymous is correct in his criticism of my assessment of Martin Keino.  My apologies  George

V 12 N. 36 'Destination Runs' by Russ Ebbets

 

Here is Russ Ebbet's second article on childhood running that we think you might enjoy and see some ways of making it fun for your kids and other people's kids.  It is sport's  A Child's Garden of Verses by Robert Louis Stevenson.  Why start a six year old reading Shakespeare to develop a love of poetry and verse,  start with Stevenson.    Following is a link to an article that appeared in The Guardian by Melissa Jacobs about a guy who had a varied route into the NFL and perceived a need to get out while he still had all his marbles. You will see Russ's thesis replayed on a different stage.    Enjoy.

Destination Runs

                                                                    by Russ Ebbets

Can you remember your first day ever of practice? How about the second day?

Chances are they were not pleasant memories. The doubt of “Can I do this?” followed

24 hours later by the soreness of newfound muscles leaves one to wonder how you ever made 

it to the  third day of practice. The use of “destination runs,” a simple training method to 

gradually introduce the concept of distance running may simplify this whole process.

Freihofer’s Run For Women has long had a program where they conduct clinics for elementary

schools in the days leading up to the annual race. As a community service national and world

class runners take time to interact with local kids introducing the how’s and why’s of running. 

The sessions routinely end with questions from the crowd. Questions are usually simple and

straightforward about pets, favorite colors and foods. Recently one of the runners returned

laughing how she was embarrassed to be at a loss for words after she was asked, “When you

are running, if you know you are going to lose – how come you don’t stop running?”

Obviously, the kid didn’t get the point. I can say that as an adult with 40+ years involvement

in the sport.

But what if I am missing the point? Although we do run to win, the results are often different.

There is always the possibility of a personal best but that is often not the case either, especially

with age. When you give the kid’s question a moment’s thought – that’s a really good question. 

The fact of the matter is racing would take on a whole new dynamic if people were stopping

as soon as winning hopes were dashed. There would be the occasional sprint to the finish for

but after that the ranks would be thin and the fund-raising aspect of the sport would be lost. 

The transition of child to adolescent presents a dichotomy of growth and development v.

training and competition. Ideally childhood should be a time of discovery. Life should be

spent doing a little of this and a little of that. And mostly the “this and that” is accomplished

with games. 

I use games in the general sense. Read it as unstructured play. The best goal is that there

should be no goal. Winning and losing are of negligible importance. When you get tired you

stop. The important thing is to have fun and to move. 

Concepts like persistence, dedication, drive and always giving your best effort are not on the

radar screen of a child. Competition and the need to win do not play such a central role either.

Simply put, they are kids. They think like kids and should be allowed to act like them.

But a problem arises when the child has to transition to a more organized setting. The journey

of 1000 miles begins with a single step. Organized training has to start somewhere. The challenge

is to transition the child into the adolescent athlete in such a manner that the fun of the games

can morph into the fundamentals of the sport that will serve one for a career and lifetime. 

But think for a moment, that first day of practice must be terrifying for most newbies. No

doubt there has been talk of five-mile runs, hill work and the like and all the newbie knows is

that they want to stop after one lap of the track. 

There is an obvious ability gap here that needs to be bridged quickly or the newbie will soon be

on other things. And these doubts and fears only escalate after one day of practice when the next

morning dawns with legs so sore it is difficult to walk. 

The point of running is to get to the finish. Conceptually for an adult they can manage the

uncertainty of the mid-race void with the faith and confidence that comes from training and

experience. The newbie is quickly lost in the void of breathless uncertainty of an unseen

finish line.  

So the question arises – how does one get the newbie through the void? 

What I have successfully used is what I call a destination run. From the first day of practice,

after the initial warm-up, we run destination runs. The distances vary from 200m up to about

one-half mile I would gather the group, point out a landmark (a tree, bench, backstop, etc.)

in the distance and give the command to run to the landmark and back. Things were not timed.

Speed was at the pace the runner was comfortable with. No walking was allowed.

The newbies returned. I’d have them find the carotid pulse on the neck and count six seconds.

Mentally I would start to record exertion and recovery rates. We would walk for a few minutes

until everyone “caught their breath.” I’d do another carotid pulse check making sure everyone

was under 12 beats (120 beats per minute) and send them off to a different destination. This

cycle was repeated 6-8 times. 

Most will see that this is simply a less structured form of interval training. And doubtless they

will be quick to add that this is an unconventional way to do interval training, especially on the

first day of a season. 

I’ll grant the unconventional sentiment but what are the other options here? Most of the runners

have never trained. I suggest that any form of distance runs would be counter productive. Even a

“short” three miles is a long eternity for a newbie that is too difficult, exhausting and destroys

any shred of confidence the athlete may have arrived with. So I would counter with – what is

the point?

At least with a destination run there is an accomplished goal that is repeated throughout

the practice. With regards to practice the athlete establishes an inventory of successful efforts.

They have faced a challenge (“run to that telephone pole and back”) and succeeded. Granted,

it is a small goal, insignificant when compared with the work of a marathon but it is a brick

that forms a base from which greater building can come. A feeling of “I can do this” is the

thought of a winner. 

Two other points bear mentioning. The rest interval between the destination runs is critical

for coachingpurposes. No doubt my athletes would remember this as a time for “stories” if at all. But this is

where I repeated stories that were lessons on technique, how to act at a meet, what to eat, what

to think before race or how successful varsity runners struggled as freshmen and the personal

doubts they mastered allowing them to go on to greater things. The list of topics was planned

and presented in 2-3 minutes, a fair rest interval. 

And then the first race comes. After the obligatory 15 days of practice, team uniforms

and pictures freshmen are ready for the first competitive effort. In the 15 practices of

destination runs they may have run some 75+ intervals with nothing longer than an 800  

(sometimes we did do a mile time trial). 

Inevitably the frosh captain would approach with a team concern about the fact that most had

never run the full race distance, usually 1.5 miles. I’d allow him to verbalize this momentary

crisis in faith and send him on his way with two quick thoughts. Firstly, I would remind him

that the team had completed every workout I had asked them to do in the last two weeks –

why would I ask them to race today if they were not prepared to do it? Secondly, I would tell

him not to stop

until the finish. 

Growth and development is an evolution with a little of this and a little of that. The transition

of the child to adolescent athlete can be organized in such a way to provide the direction,

fundamentals and motivation necessary to create the dedication, drive and desire that will

evolveinto successful competitive efforts.

Definitely words to dwell upon.  Now here is the story of a multi-gifted athlete's unconventional journey to the NFL and his choice to retire early.

Ali Marpet, A Multi Sport Path to the NFL  (Link)

Amen to brother Russ.,    Joe Rogers

Kids can have more than one interest and can display good character in sport.  I'm reminded of dear friend now departed,  Phil Scott, telling about some of his cross country runners.  One kid a biology student who came in rather poorly in a cross country race.  He went up to him to ask what happened and noticed the runner was covered with preying mantises .   He told Phil when he saw all those bugs out on the course he just had to stop and collect some of them.   Another child who was raised on manners and politeness always said,  "Excuse me." when she passed another runner.    George

NFL guy who valued his education.  smarter than the average athlete.  Bruce Kritzler

V 12 N. 35 Children Running: Can v. Should - Russ Ebbets

 Our previous post dealt a bit with an incident of a six year old child running a marathon.  It inspired Russ Ebbets to send us this piece he wrote recently.  

Children Running: Can v. Should

by Russ Ebbets

The World Records for distance running from the mile to the marathon for 10-year-olds is a graveyard of talent. Those poor guys and girls never do much past that point. Unfortunately, this is a story repeated again and again and again.

Right off – I have strong opinions on this subject. I was a pretty good child runner. I mention this not to brag but to frame my argument. I started running “officially” as a 12-year-old in the New York Road Runners Club back in the days when an event drew 30-40 runners. I remember the unique and famous Fred Lebow being there. He was just unique back then. I was undefeated in the 12 and under ranks. You can look it up if you want. 

I always beat the same kid. He was 10 or 11 years old and came up to my hip. Even though I always won he seemed to get all the “atta boy’s,” it was David v. Goliath and I was Goliath.

I remember talking a number of times with the kid’s father. He was a husky guy, maybe 5’9”, about 180 pounds and ran in the adult races. He was enthusiastic about his running but never beat anybody. I remember thinking how somebody could know so much and not be so good. I was learning about adults. 

I had no coach. The father used to tell me how hard he trained his son. I distinctly remember one workout he said they did – 8x 880 in under 2:40 wearing a 20-pound weight vest. The kid didn’t weigh 100 pounds. This probably explained his height. 

My training seemed to consist of bike rides, some extended walk-jogs and sprint races at practice to see who was fastest. I felt a little guilty winning the races without “really” training.

All I ever heard about was how great this kid was going to be yet week in and week out I beat him like a drum. He had a little brother and I beat him too. Goliath had no mercy. 

In high school I ran a 4:30 mile as a 15-year old and eventually got down to 4:24. Things stalled out there, but I was still running well at ages 30-31. Although the accomplishments never quite caught the hopes, I have much to be thankful for. 

When I was coaching I used to get calls 2-3x per year with the voice asking me to coach their son or daughter. The one-sided conversation would go on for five or 10 minutes with the parent rambling on about all the races their kid had won, this 5k, that 10k, town champ, gold medals and on and on. When they stopped to catch their breath, I’d jump in.

“How old is your child?”

“Ten,” or eleven or younger. 

My advice was always the same. “Buy them a soccer ball, put them in the backyard and call me when they are 15.”

There was silence while I gave the parent my two cents. Kids aren’t meant to run long distance. Develop their other skills. It is too early to specialize. It wasn’t what they wanted to hear. The conversation soon ended, sometimes politely, sometimes with a, “What do you know!”

I know. I was there. 

I also know my freshman teams won three league championships in four years. We would have gone four for four but my first year my #3 guy missed the bus the day of the championships. More importantly the teams I left behind by senior year were both the top ranked high school programs in New York State and the Shen team won it all.

Success in the athletic arena hinges on the organization of a “system,” talent identification and talent development. It is easy to succeed with the “Box of Rats Method” where all you do is train everybody hard and eventually the top rat emerges. One great rat and a lot of dead rats. The challenge of good coaching is to save the other rats. 

Talent identification may be the easiest step. High school recruiting is limited to in-house efforts. I went for numbers. I needed 10 freshmen for cross country. If you had a pulse and could fog a mirror you qualified. I had confidence in my development plan. 

The Development Plan – One of the greatest fears of a freshman is – can I do this?

My first words to my freshman teams were, “You will be champions.” My practices started the end of doubt. I segregated the frosh and gave them things they could do. We did “destination runs” – run to that tree and back, run to that pole and back, for about two weeks. We rested between runs. We counted heartbeats. I got a clue who had the “engines.” After 6-8 of these destination runs, we walked and did push-ups and sit-ups. That was practice until the first race. Oftentimes we ran the first race never having run the full distance. We were usually top five. You can develop from there. 

After about two weeks the frosh would start to feel comfortable with it all. They could see they were getting better, a rank order was starting to form and both the quality and quantity of their workload created a momentum on the team that generated enthusiasm. They were developing faith in their abilities – I can do this. A coach can do a lot with a little faith. 

This is all well and good you might say but what do you do with a 10-year old? The best program I have seen is the one championed by the British, the “Five Star Award Scheme.” It set the events up with point values and at competitions athletes had to compete in three events. If they hit the pre-determined point values, they won a merit badge. The charts were progressive, could be used for various age groups and promoted goal directed behaviors. Incidentally the charts could also be used to identify talent and develop it through an organized system. 

Some other points to ponder:

Multilateral development – let kids try many different sports and activities. Up to the age of early specialization, 14 or 15, kids should be exposed to many different physical activities. It helps them in their socialization process, emotional development and problem-solving skills. 

Teach fundamentals – I once had a friend who was a great hockey player. He had a friend who as a child was trained as a figure skater, his family would not let him play hockey. As a child he was ridiculed for figure skating. When his parents finally let him play hockey, he became a great hockey player too. He could skate better than anyone on the ice, in fact he could skate circles around them.  Movement fundamentals.

The ability of skip is a skill that transfers to many sports and events. Use of baton drills and relays keeps practice fun. Use of hops, skips and jumps makes practice fun. Kids like to do fun stuff. 

Train for short distances 400/800m – Short distances prize speed. That is what racing should be about. Shorter races develop tactical sense and decision-making skills in the heat of the battle. Longer endurance runs foster a “grind it out” attitude, obstinance and compulsion – not necessarily the most attractive attributes for a 10-year old.

Attend events – and not just competitions. Have your youngsters watch the warm-ups and training sessions of better athletes. How does work get done? How do good people act? Carefully pick your role models. 

Foster learning – What is the most important thing you learned today? Don’t badger the kid with a cross examination but create some introspection. How can they apply that knowledge to the future?

Arrested development – The skeleton of a child is not developed until the late teen years and for some people full growth and development doesn’t stop until the early 20’s. Excessive exercise or repetitive motion activities can negatively affect the growth of a child. Throwing too many curve balls as a little league pitcher is a prime example. They even have an orthopedic condition called “Little League Elbow.”

The very nature of distance running is that of a repetitive motion activity. A thousand steps per mile, mile after mile on a hard surface hitting the ground at 4-7x body weight could potentially damage the growth plates of a child. Nationally they have stopped keeping long distance records for little kids.

There is also the issue of growth. Although I have never seen any studies on this point, intuitively it makes sense to me. If a child trains to excess the energy that the body would use to grow and develop is shunted towards training or competitive efforts. High school rules that allow runners to compete in four events per competition several times a week are short sighted and irresponsible. You can quote me. 

Childhood should be a time of exploration and discovery. This includes the introduction to many different activities both social and athletic. Early participation and early success can be both a blessing and a curse. 

The entry to high school closely mirrors the recommended age for introduction of serious competitive efforts. A generalized introduction to shorter distance running at that time can begin. At this point the chance of debilitating growth plate injury are lessened. The comradery of being on a true team offers the chances of participation and decreases the chances of burnout. 

A crying, terrified three-year old with a full diaper makes for a lousy competitor. While the parents might get a laugh at the histrionics I wonder if this develops a psychic association of “new” always being “bad.”  I can’t v. I can.

Once I graduated from the 12 and under class I never heard of the kid in the 20# weight vest again. His road to obscurity was paved with great workouts. The childhood superstars pushed from the start never seem to make it. 

Russ Ebbets Biographical Information

Dr. Russ Ebbets has a lifelong involvement in sport as an athlete, coach, administrator and healthcare provider. He had been a Lead Instructor and Level 3 Coach in the USATF Coaching Education Program since 1983. He has lectured at Level 1,2,3 Schools, authored the curriculum for the Level 2 Youth endurance, biomechanics and race walk. He has spoken  at the High Performance Summits on Improving Distance Running in America on two occasions. 

Since 1999 he has edited Track Coach, the technical journal for USATF. He has lectured nationally, in Scandinavia, the Caribbean and at the Olympic Training Centers in Colorado Springs and Lake Placid on health and sport related topics. Additionally he has presented at the FICS World Conference on Sport and Training Theory and had a poster presentation at the 2014 WFC Conference on The Athletic Triage Model. He has served as the US National Team Chiropractor to three IAAF World Championships. 

On two occasions Dr. Ebbets traveled to the Soviet Union to study athletic development and track and field at the Soviet Institute of Sport and Physical Culture. His first master’s thesis was on the Olympic Development Programs of the Eastern Bloc countries. His second thesis was a seminar project at Ithaca College where he studied the impact of emergency medicine, athletic training and chiropractic care services at the Syracuse Festival of Races, one of America’s top distance runs. That project laid the foundation of the Athletic Triage Model that has been used throughout the Northeast to deliver on-site sports health care. In December 2020 he earned a third master’s degree in Exercise Science from SUNY-Cortland. His thesis was on how spinal manipulation aids endurance efforts by changing the body’s biomechanical efficiency and physiology.

He is the author of two novels, a trail guide to the Adirondack 46 High Peaks and his 2019 A Runner’s Guide was a finalist for the Track and Field Writers of America Book of the Year Contest.

Dr Ebbets founded the nationally recognized sports outreach program at NY Chiropractic College that has provided complimentary care at 250+ events (2000-2015) including the Millrose Games, the National Scholastic Indoor Championships and Freihofer’s Run For Women treating some 15,000 patients. He is currently in private practice in Union Springs, NY on the northern end of Cayuga Lake. His is involved with a number of community projects including serving as a regional officer for the Lions Clubs and as president of the Niagara Association of USA Track & Field.

V 12 N. 34 When is Too Much, Too Much?

 Lately I've been having online conversations with old running friends, sometimes with myself, occasionally God forbid on Facebook.  The theme has generally been, what is too much training? That dilemma has always been a part of coaching oneself and others.  In the distant past I think we can all agree that in the late 50's and 60's many of us  did way too much.  Maybe not on any one day, but definitely from day to day, we really didn't take much rest.  The philosophy was often, "If I'm going to beat somebody, I've gotta out train him."  I remember when a week of training meant a day of 440's, a day of 880's, a day of 1320's and a day of 220's, .  The more the better, the faster even better.   Friday we travelled, Saturday we raced (sometimes two and three races at two-day meets) and came home, and Sunday we rested or did a 4 mile jog.     I also remember by the end of my third year of college, I was a total burnout and it took almost 9 years to get over it.  In my early racing years I  did very little distance training.  It was too hard and our shoes were shit, to quote Bill Bowerman.    An 8 mile run in the summer was tops.  Hardly anything like that once back in school in September.  

Now in my/our 'golden' era, ( some don't want to use the terms 'elderly, old" or other condescending terms for those humans over 70),  and I guess I should respect that,  I'm wondering how we know when enough is enough in our  plodding over tracks and trails.  Some have had too many joint replacements, injuries, or illnesses to be concerned anymore.  But for the fortunate few, the question still remains.

I mentioned in a letter recently to a few guys that I ran a couple of mile time trials lately after getting over the Omicron variant which had left me with blood clots in one leg and both lungs.  Got placed on blood thinners and told to take it easy.  What's easy?  Hard to define.  

You will shortly see some responses from several former competitive runners and coaches.  And additionally I will also bring up the topic of young children running marathons (too much too soon?) as a six year old recently ran a marathon in Cincinnati and Children's Services came knocking on the door.   

Okay so here's the bit on what's enough for a senior runner.

May 9

Since getting Omicron in February and picking up; blood clots in right leg and both lungs, I've been trying to come back slowly to exercising without blowing a gasket.  No way really of telling what would be too much.  But recovery between exercise bouts has been slow, even from long walks.   Anyway last week I did virtually nothing for four days travelling up to Alert Bay on Cormorant Island off the northeast coast of Vancouver Island. 

When I got back I went for a walk and felt incredibly strong in the legs compared to how I had been feeling for the last three months.   So I decided to run a mile yesterday on a flat trail I had run some previous 'time trials' on.   Both of those efforts had been slooow.  12 min.  then 10:25 about a week ago.  Yesterday I hit 9:35, so maybe it was  insufficient rest that was the problem.  Isn't that what I've been telling myself for years about my training as a 19 and 20 year  and 30 year old?    Last summer at the 'peak' of my running I had an 8:55 on a similar course.  I plan to take some more time off and do this again.  It wasn't easy, but it was enjoyable.  The trail is straight and flat between two roads that are a mile apart, following an old logging railway path.  I'm still intimidated getting on a track to run time trials.  Through a beautiful green forest is a lot more relaxing.    George

From Roy Mason (knee replacement has kept him off the trails and roads but he is still a workout maniac)  

Good to hear you are on the mend.  I have experienced the same thing in my workouts.  As I have been able to maintain intensity through age 81, I thought there was no reason I couldn't continue hard workouts into my nineties.  In the last year, reality hit.  Could still do tough weightroom workouts (24 stations, half at max, half concentration, depending on the day) and get the occasional PR at one of the flat out stations, but the price was feeling like shit for the next 2-3 days.  Started taking days off and immediately felt better.  My workout frequency dropped from 91% in 2020 to 82% in '21 to 68% this year and I feel better although there are some guilt pangs over missing a day.  I have three workouts - the big boy flat out weightroom routine, 30 minutes of fairly intense work on the exercise bike and a lighter routine with dumbbells at home.  They are done with equal frequency. I have a Mr. Roger's Neighborhood tee shirt, probably 40 years old, that I wear in the weight room.  Twice I have been asked.  Mr. Rogers?  Who's that?  Roy

from Bill Schnier former U. of Cincinnati head coach (30+ years)  and competitive runner

   Thanks for the update.  The fact that you are timing yourself indicates a trend toward too much.  However, better times continue to be motivating, even though we compare ourselves against our worst self.  Sounds as if you are still keeping it at the right tempo.  Bill

from Bruce Kritzler former coach U of Louisiana Monroe and U North Carolina Wilmington and long time Master's runner.

good run (time trial) George. 

i haven’t been on the track yet this year. built up to 16x100 barefoot once or twice/week. had minor skin surgery two weeks ago on my back. surprised the surgeons requesting them to remove some splinters from my feet.  My wife couldn't dig them out.  Bruce

From John Perry (former member of Oklahoma State WR 4x880 team and a 1:46 man and 4:04 miler)

George 

Don’t ever say the “elderly” word again! I still think I’m young and tell myself that everyday when I get up!  We’re just not as fast! 

In addition, if you are not planning on competing again, throw the watch away! I have no idea what my time is for my one mile jog and the only reason I know my 8x100m (19-21 sec) times is that my training partner carries a watch. He also pulls muscles trying to run too fast (16-17),  usually a hamstring, when I’m not there to keep him under control! He’s 75! 

Intervals are the way to go! If you can run 6 minute mile pace for 100 M just striding along, you feel like a runner! My goal is to get the “float”, not go out and kill myself training for a sub 3:00 800m. It’s possible, but I’d rather play golf, fish and drink wine! 

John Perry 

from Sylvia Gleason (ER doctor, ultra runner, competitive cyclist, medical missionary in war zones like the Congo)

I have been using my mountain bike a lot more. The whole gravel riding thing has taken off in popularity, and I have come to appreciate why.  Almost no traffic on gravel , dirt and one lane back roads and some of the best scenery you could wish for. I like the muti-day bike trips I have done over the last few years, one of my favorite remains  " Heart of Appalachia: which took us on gravel and forest service road through western Virginia and parts of Tennessee. 

and finally from Bill Blewett in Maryland.   Bill was an incredible 'walk on' at Oklahoma 4:02 mile and sub 14:00  3 mile.   Won the Peach Tree Road Race back in the 70's.   He's now on a lifetime regimen of  chemo every three weeks for a form of leukemia.  

George, that's an interesting perspective on work-rest balance for us elderly (I don't like that adjective) runners.  Of course, Billy Mills took a year and a half off after graduating from Kansas, and when he began to run again, he found himself so surprisingly strong that he went on to win gold in Tokyo a year into his comeback.  I suspect he overtrained in his college days under Bill Easton and the long hiatus allowed his body to heal the cumulative damage.
I feel that at age 74, I am getting stronger as my therapy continues, even though I cannot yet get back to jogging.  My workouts are 1/2 to 1 mile a day of walking, mostly on the treadmill, 2.5 mph, and I find that can now go down stairs faster, that I am no longer stiff and sluggish when I get up from sitting for an hour in front of the computer.  I am starting to do pushups again, and they are getting easier each week.  There is hope.

George again:   So I'm inclined to believe the harder we work, the more rest we need.  Work easy, rest easy,  work hard, rest a longer time.   Experiment and find what works for you.  I like John Perry's running repeat 100 meters.  You can do it at a pretty good clip and back off before you get tired.  Check what you did for the workout  16 x 100 and you've got a pretty good mile under your belt.  You raised you heart rate, let it come down and pushed it up again.    Talking to Bob Schul once (very Igloi trained) he said nothing over 400 meters ever did him any good for running 5,000 meters.   Also when I was a grad student at the Human Performance Lab at Ball State,  Dave Costill the very well known director of the lab had an axiom of 20 minutes, three times a week at about 70% of max heart rate was enough to keep an adult fit.  Dave, if you read this, please correct me on this if I've erred.  

I would love to hear readers' thoughts on this and will add them to the article.

Now, go get a beer and get ready for Part Twol

Okay, so you're on your second beer.

Yesterday  I shot my mouth off on FB on a totally different subject and scrolled down and noted that some folks were "shocked, Louie, shocked" to quote Adolph Menjou in "Casablanca" that a six year old had run a marathon in Cincinnati,  and his father had given him some Pringles to continue when the child started to cry.   Apparently Children's Services made a house call when the story got out. I doubt that the child was removed from the care of the parents.  It was Kentucky.    It usually takes a lot more like the parents are whacked out druggies and the child has crawled out the second floor window and is on the roof or riding his trike down the Interstate against the flow of traffic, or unfortunately a lot worse.  I was curious as to whether there were records for young kids running marathons.

I found that 9 year old Wesley Paul on January 25, 1969 ran a 2:56:57 marathon in Huntsville, AL.  Wesley lived in Overland Park, KS, so Mom and Dad were definitely into this travelling that far for a race.  Also at age 7 Wesley had run a 4hr 4 min. marathon.  Mom and Dad were working on their PhD.'s in math.

So what is your feeling about kids running marathons?   Doing a bit of internet trolling I found that approximately 75 kids  8-13 years old had run in the NYC Marathon before the organizers raised the age limit first to 16 and now to 18.  Age of consent? (age of consent in Alabama 12, 13 in Tennessee). 

Should it be considered abuse if you train your kid to run a marathon if he or she is 6 years old?  I guess it depends on what the child likes to do.  Would it be better if he sat in front of a video screen all day or as I've often seen in coffee shops, some neglectful parents on their cell phones while a toddler is desperately trying to get their attention from its stroller?   There's a vague line somewhere and I think each case of a child running a marathon or walking a tight rope has to be individually evaluated.  

Wesley Paul in NYC

Wesley Paul, mentioned earlier, continued running until age 15 when he was hit by a car and broke a knee cap.  Now he's a lawyer, jogs some and is into rowing.  He also doesn't regret a day of his childhood marathoning according to another article about him by Debra Cassens Weiss in the American Bar Association Journal, Oct. 25, 2009.   link:  https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/these_lawyers_ran_the_nyc_marathon_at_the_ages_of_8_and_9

For the girls,  nine year old Julie Mullin ran a 2 hr 58:01 on August 30, 1966 at Seaside Oregon.  I could not find what has become of Julie.  I somehow doubt that she is living under a bridge.

Both these kids did these times, many years ago.  If kids were still doing marathons I'm sure the records would be somewhat lower, so the interest seems to have waned.   We as parents all like to see our kids succeed.  That's why we have age group records.  The question is where to draw the limits.  I doubt now that marathon camps for toddlers would be very profitable.  There are other ways to help your child shine.  I have witnessed this with my own eyes at dance studios.  We make young girls stand on the points of their toes and look 'beautiful' for doting mothers, fathers, and grandparents.  They practice for hours, some 5-6 days a week.  They dream of being prima ballerinas, and when they reach puberty, many are shown the door because nature has been unkind to their figures and they cannot walk through that template that gets a woman into a famous ballet school.  Is that any less arrogant than a parent encouraging a child to run a marathon?  But we seldom if ever ask this question  about the arts.  

It is sometimes preached at sports banquets that sport prepares you for life.  The highs and lows and the need to change often come the way of the aspiring athlete.  But the confidence to persevere in hard times is also one of the great lessons of sport even when it sometimes robs us of our childhood .  In the Ukraine today, thousands of people are being tested in the most insidious of ways.   I truly believe that the athletes and dancers have the best chances of survival.

Mary Etta Boitano, a young marathoner  

 For more on thesubject, see this article by Bob Anderson on Mary Etta Boitano who ran a marathon at age 4 and the Dipsea before she was 10.   

   This has to be your longest post ever.  Could it be because you cannot train as usual?  The 6-year old Cincinnati marathoner has been big news with plenty of supporters or detractors on both sides.  When he started crying was when others started yelling at his parents.  I think it came down to parental pushing and a desire to please your parents.  Nevertheless, running a marathon at age 6 is quite an accomplishment and I hope that continues to motivate the child as he grows older.

   The comments from your "elderly" runners went from A to Z so maybe the same principles for training continue when you age.  We are all still exercising in some way or another.

Bill Schnier

Yep, sometimes the only things we have left to exercise are our 'rights'.  George

George, 

8x100m is perfect! 16 is overtraining! 1 mile jog, stretching and very slow walk between 100’s gets your heart rate up to 150+ and down to 90-100 for over 30 continuous minutes. You even get a distance running “high” without doing a 5 miler and killing your legs! 

My only competition is with myself when I run my annual birthday striders in July! I feel faster every year but I guess I will start timing to validate and document that. 

Take care,

John Perry

A Bier (or two), a cold soak and sleep.   

by Richard Mach

Frequently, the aftermath of  over-training back in the day was retarded, slow recovery and little return of energy along with an aftermath of soreness and stiffness.  At a running camp a friend, Jim Carter, and I sponsored outside of Frankfort MI in the late 70s to early 80s, Herb Lindsey from Reed City, MI and Michigan State University, then the best man on the roads in the world just before the advent of the Kenyans, suggested after an extensive training session to bring a beer with you while soaking in a later spring, early summer lake.   

The first time I tried it was after a 22 mile run on the dusty hot back dirt roads in SE Michigan and was blitzed by a combination of both heat stress and dehydration because back in the day no one carried water on them.  And I foolishly went out somewhat dehydrated. Bringing  H2O back then would have  anathema to the Terminal Macho Spirit that then pervaded the serious running community.  But, I lived on a lake, if was late spring, cold water in abundance right out the back door; and a good German beer in the fridge.  Soaked up to my neck.  Wasn't for the faint hearted, but actually, the bier seemed, somehow, to ease the entry in such waters.   And you have been living in a world of discomfort and so this isn't much different.

What is happening internally is the cold is gradually penetrating the sore muscles and the inflamed area around the joint centers and effectively shrinking and sedating them.   Ice baths today are de riguer in the NFL and other sports where the body takes a lot of punishment.  Meanwhile, the beer you have been  drinking is doing more than dulling your senses enough to try such a challenging venture.  The alcohol the beer carries is but a single chemical step from being fully metabolizable energy, Glucose, for the body.  That beer or two is shunting energy into fatigue and exhausted muscle including the heart muscle.   It is very ready energy and the body in its energy deficit right then is anxious to partake of it in refurbishing its energy stories.  

The beer, again, makes it easier to enter the water.  This can also be done anytime in your own bathtub.  The temperature of the water?   Something you are slightly out of your comfort zone.  In the tub, you can start with warmish water.  And gradually once in the tub cool it down with gradually accruing cold water.   Until you hear your body protesting, saying no, that is your temperature.  For the day.  Stay in there until you have a strong, but not overpowering urge to get out.   By that time you should be cold through and through.  And the beer has done its job.   

Then it is time to rest and stay horizontal instead of trying to plough through the rest of your day immediately; acknowledging the body has been challenged, has given back value to you and now in its present state is in need of rest.  Honor it with the rest it needs.  

This simple formula shared with me back a half a lifetime ago has served me every time -- without fail. Richard.

editor's note.   Local First Nations culture in Pacific Northwest practices this cold water immersion as a cleansing ceremony but without beer.  They also do the sweat lodges. 

Russ Ebbets writes about the child running question.

 George - I wrote the endurance curriculum for the Youth Level 2 of USATF's Coaching Ed back in 2012...it was one the most difficult things I ever did...I researched all the great coaches and to a man they had nothing to say about children running...on one slide in the presentation I had a split-screen with the title "American Record holders"...on the right side of the screen were all the American record-holders for distances from the mile to the marathon...names you would know littered the list like Webb, Lagat, Bob Kennedy, etc....there were 120 coaches in the clinic...I asked them who were all the athletes on the right side of the slide?...no one could identify even one of the names ...they were the American record-holders in all the same events for the 10-year-old age category...they never did anything after that...when I was prepping the lecture the first "record holder" in the JO's that had an adult career was Tom Hunt from Arizona as a 16-year-old.

Below is the link to Budhai Singh, the Indian child who set all the youth running records...there have been several movies done on him you can find on Netflix...I forced myself to watch them...they will make you sick to your stomach...I realize India has a cultural fascination of the "biggest, longest, best" with their own version of the Guinness Book of World Records (Limca Book of Records) but there gets to be a point where these things lose sense (i.e. world's longest fingernails, etc.)...articles attached are my thoughts on children running and my solution (Destination Runs) how I succeeded in transitioning the untrained to runners pretty quickly and successfully...stay well...Russ

Budhia Singh - Wikipedia

Budhia Singh - Wikipedia Budhia Singh (born 2002) is an Indian long-distance runner who became notable for his athletic feats as a child. He has been acclaimed as the world's youngest marathon runner. He ran from Puri to Bhubaneswar at the age of five covering 65 kilometres (40 mi) in seven hours and two minutes and was listed as the world's youngest marathon runner in the 2006 edition of the Limca Book of Records, an ... en.wikipedia.org